Discussion:
anti spam, what are the options?
(too old to reply)
Dark Warrior_
2005-05-25 22:46:35 UTC
Permalink
lo all.

would like to hear what anti spam you use

im using 4 pc all with winxp. using different email software. outlook
express / outlook / newsrover / agent.

what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
mikeFNB
2005-05-25 23:16:55 UTC
Permalink
mailwasher and spywareblaster, never get a thing passed by those two
popupstopperfree is also a good tool to have in the armoury.

mike


mike
Post by Dark Warrior_
lo all.
would like to hear what anti spam you use
im using 4 pc all with winxp. using different email software. outlook
express / outlook / newsrover / agent.
what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
The Caretaker
2005-05-26 08:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by mikeFNB
mailwasher and spywareblaster, never get a thing passed by those two
popupstopperfree is also a good tool to have in the armoury.
What he said.

But not top-posted.
--
The Caretaker .........
PJ
2005-05-26 10:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Caretaker
Post by mikeFNB
mailwasher and spywareblaster, never get a thing passed by those two
popupstopperfree is also a good tool to have in the armoury.
What he said.
But not top-posted.
Alternatively, use an ISP that provides anti-spam/anti-virus on their email
service.
--
PJ
The Caretaker
2005-05-26 13:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by PJ
Post by The Caretaker
Post by mikeFNB
mailwasher and spywareblaster, never get a thing passed by those two
popupstopperfree is also a good tool to have in the armoury.
What he said.
But not top-posted.
Alternatively, use an ISP that provides anti-spam/anti-virus on their email
service.
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?

Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
--
The Caretaker .........
Stephen Chadfield
2005-05-26 15:47:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:05:47 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP? I use FastMail who filter with SpamAssassin. They
allow you to configure this via a web interface:

<http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/SpamSettings.htm#SpamPresets>
--
Stephen Chadfield
http://www.chadfield.com/
The Caretaker
2005-05-26 18:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Chadfield
On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:05:47 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP? I use FastMail who filter with SpamAssassin. They
<http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/SpamSettings.htm#SpamPresets>
Fastmail are an email service, not an ISP. They are, indeed, very good
though.

A small, but significant, point methinks. :)
--
The Caretaker .........
Stephen Chadfield
2005-05-27 19:22:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:01:31 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
Post by Stephen Chadfield
On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:05:47 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP? I use FastMail who filter with SpamAssassin. They
<http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/SpamSettings.htm#SpamPresets>
Fastmail are an email service, not an ISP. They are, indeed, very good
though.
A small, but significant, point methinks. :)
I was going to write a snotty reply stating my belief that an ISP is
any organisation that supplies internet services such as net access,
web hosting, email or shell accounts. However, as the Wikipedia does
not agree with me I am instead going to slink off quietly ;-)
--
Stephen Chadfield
http://www.chadfield.com/
The Caretaker
2005-05-28 07:49:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Chadfield
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:01:31 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
Post by Stephen Chadfield
On Thu, 26 May 2005 13:05:47 GMT, The Caretaker
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP? I use FastMail who filter with SpamAssassin. They
<http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/SpamSettings.htm#SpamPresets>
Fastmail are an email service, not an ISP. They are, indeed, very good
though.
A small, but significant, point methinks. :)
I was going to write a snotty reply stating my belief that an ISP is
any organisation that supplies internet services such as net access,
web hosting, email or shell accounts. However, as the Wikipedia does
not agree with me I am instead going to slink off quietly ;-)
NO, DON'T GO QUIETLY ..........

Ranting and raving, even if you're demonstrably wrong is the _real_ way
to leave a thread. Jeez, Usenet'd never be the same if you actually
accept someone elses point of view.

:)
--
The Caretaker .........
Adrian
2005-05-26 22:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Chadfield
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP?
Considering this is **NTL**.discussion.security... I'm with the caretaker
on this.
PJ
2005-05-27 10:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by Stephen Chadfield
Post by The Caretaker
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
Depends on the ISP?
Considering this is **NTL**.discussion.security... I'm with the caretaker
on this.
Good point, I wasn't considering NTL in this light anyway.
--
PJ
PJ
2005-05-27 10:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Caretaker
Post by PJ
Post by The Caretaker
Post by mikeFNB
mailwasher and spywareblaster, never get a thing passed by those two
popupstopperfree is also a good tool to have in the armoury.
What he said.
But not top-posted.
Alternatively, use an ISP that provides anti-spam/anti-virus on their email
service.
You trust an ISP to filter your mail?
Jeez, I wouldn't trust them to keep the fecking mailbox open ......
A good point Caretaker, but the one I was thinking of simply appends
**SPAM** to the subject header which makes it easy to trap. You still get
to receive it which, I suppose, partialy defeats the object of the exercise.
Personally I find that Outlook's spam filter does a fairly reasonable job
and I get very few, if any, false positives.
--
PJ
Adrian
2005-05-26 22:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by mikeFNB
never get a thing passed by those two
No such thing as 100% hit rate.

False Negatives are perfectly OK, in small numbers.
False Positives are *evil* - and unless you monitor what's being dumped,
you'll *never* know if you're getting any.
The Caretaker
2005-05-27 06:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by mikeFNB
never get a thing passed by those two
No such thing as 100% hit rate.
False Negatives are perfectly OK, in small numbers.
False Positives are *evil* - and unless you monitor what's being dumped,
you'll *never* know if you're getting any.
Absolutely.

One email lost from a legitimate source can be worth far more than any
amount of hassle from spam.
--
The Caretaker .........
Mushroom
2005-05-26 12:30:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dark Warrior_
lo all.
would like to hear what anti spam you use
im using 4 pc all with winxp. using different email software. outlook
express / outlook / newsrover / agent.
what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
--
Mushroom
patrickp
2005-05-26 18:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mushroom
Post by Dark Warrior_
lo all.
would like to hear what anti spam you use
im using 4 pc all with winxp. using different email software. outlook
express / outlook / newsrover / agent.
what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
Agreed. I find it very effective, too.

Patrick

<***@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Mark McIntyre
2005-05-26 19:05:03 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:06:51 GMT, patrickp
Post by patrickp
Post by Mushroom
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
Agreed. I find it very effective, too.
My only problem with TBird was, and it pains me to say this, that
compared to Outlook it sucked - it doesn't do the other stuff that
Outlook does eg calendar, contacts list, todo list, proper synch with
my Palm, etc.

So you end up swapping one set of multiple apps, most of which you
don't need to open very often, for a different set of multiple apps
all of which you do need to open, which was annoying, especially since
I already had my antispam stuff all trained up and use spamcop.

I'll come back to thunderbird when its a complete package.
Adrian
2005-05-27 11:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark McIntyre
My only problem with TBird was, and it pains me to say this, that
compared to Outlook it sucked - it doesn't do the other stuff that
Outlook does eg calendar, contacts list, todo list, proper synch with
my Palm, etc.
You've got a couple of good points in there, Mark, but you do your
credibility no favours because of a couple of very basic errors.

T-bird *does* do Contact Lists - just click on the address book tab.
T-bird *does* do Calendar, via an extension -
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/

As for synch, as a WindowsMobile phone/PDA user, T-bird doesn't do the biz
- but that's more a Microsoft proprietary problem than Mozilla's. Yes, to a
user, that's irrelevant - but let's put the blame where it's due. Microsoft
are railroading you down a monolithic homogenous environment. Again. You
use an MS PDA, so you have to use Outlook, so you get steered towards
Exchange, which ties you to a Win2k3/AD server environment, which ties you
to their machiavellian licencing.

As a Palm user, though, you should be covered for address book synch -
http://kb.mozillazine.org/PalmSync_(Thunderbird) - again, an extension that
replaces the Palm contact conduit. Yes, it'd be nice if that synch'd the
calendar too. It'll happen. In the mean time, I seem to recall that the
Palm Desktop wasn't that unpleasant an environment.

Now try using Outlook against an LDAP address book. Nope, it's horrible. Do
a more apples-to-apples comparison, of T-bird with OE, and the suckage is
only in one direction...
patrickp
2005-05-27 21:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by Mark McIntyre
My only problem with TBird was, and it pains me to say this, that
compared to Outlook it sucked - it doesn't do the other stuff that
Outlook does eg calendar, contacts list, todo list, proper synch with
my Palm, etc.
You've got a couple of good points in there, Mark, but you do your
credibility no favours because of a couple of very basic errors.
T-bird *does* do Contact Lists - just click on the address book tab.
T-bird *does* do Calendar, via an extension -
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/
As for synch, as a WindowsMobile phone/PDA user, T-bird doesn't do the biz
- but that's more a Microsoft proprietary problem than Mozilla's. Yes, to a
user, that's irrelevant - but let's put the blame where it's due. Microsoft
are railroading you down a monolithic homogenous environment. Again. You
use an MS PDA, so you have to use Outlook, so you get steered towards
Exchange, which ties you to a Win2k3/AD server environment, which ties you
to their machiavellian licencing.
As a Palm user, though, you should be covered for address book synch -
http://kb.mozillazine.org/PalmSync_(Thunderbird) - again, an extension that
replaces the Palm contact conduit. Yes, it'd be nice if that synch'd the
calendar too. It'll happen. In the mean time, I seem to recall that the
Palm Desktop wasn't that unpleasant an environment.
Now try using Outlook against an LDAP address book. Nope, it's horrible. Do
a more apples-to-apples comparison, of T-bird with OE, and the suckage is
only in one direction...
And, indirectly, Adrian, you've mentioned one of Thunderbird's and
Firefox's stronger points: that, rather than just installing a bloated
montrosity with more bells and whistles than would be needed to
convert a Keystone Cops movie to sound, they are both fairly basic,
and you add the extensions you want and no others. There's already a
fair range of extensions available, more come out all the time, and
it's a process that's driven by users to a great extent.

Patrick

<***@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Mark McIntyre
2005-05-27 21:31:01 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 27 May 2005 21:16:02 GMT, patrickp
Post by patrickp
And, indirectly, Adrian, you've mentioned one of Thunderbird's and
Firefox's stronger points: that, rather than just installing a bloated
montrosity with more bells and whistles than would be needed
etc.

My point is that this is one of the cases where the bells and whistles
are *not* gratuitous, and having to fool around finding, installing
and understanding a raft of addons is not a good user experience.
Heck, I'm a techy and I gave up after 30 mins, so its hardly likely to
attract end-users.
Post by patrickp
it's a process that's driven by users to a great extent.
Unfortunately, its still at the stage linux was at 5 years ago ,ie
driven mostly by bearded sandal-wearing techies who live online....
gd&r
Buzzbomb
2005-05-28 05:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark McIntyre
On Fri, 27 May 2005 21:16:02 GMT, patrickp
Post by patrickp
And, indirectly, Adrian, you've mentioned one of Thunderbird's and
Firefox's stronger points: that, rather than just installing a bloated
montrosity with more bells and whistles than would be needed
etc.
My point is that this is one of the cases where the bells and whistles
are *not* gratuitous, and having to fool around finding, installing
They are gratuitous for many users, but if you need the features Outlook
provides why are you even bothering looking at T'bird - it doesn't even
claim to do what Outlook does.
Post by Mark McIntyre
and understanding a raft of addons is not a good user experience.
Heck, I'm a techy and I gave up after 30 mins,
Techy... gave up trying to install T'bird and a couple of extensions...
hmmmm
Post by Mark McIntyre
so its hardly likely to
attract end-users.
I have recommended T'bird to many end-users and they love the speed &
simplicity.
Post by Mark McIntyre
Post by patrickp
it's a process that's driven by users to a great extent.
Unfortunately, its still at the stage linux was at 5 years ago ,ie
driven mostly by bearded sandal-wearing techies who live online....
gd&r
Bollocks

B.
Adrian
2005-05-28 08:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buzzbomb
Post by Mark McIntyre
Unfortunately, its still at the stage linux was at 5 years ago ,ie
driven mostly by bearded sandal-wearing techies who live online....
Bollocks
Umm, Buzz... Think you might have missed this bit :-
Post by Buzzbomb
Post by Mark McIntyre
gd&r
Mark McIntyre
2005-05-28 08:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buzzbomb
Post by Mark McIntyre
My point is that this is one of the cases where the bells and whistles
are *not* gratuitous, and having to fool around finding, installing
They are gratuitous for many users, but if you need the features Outlook
provides why are you even bothering looking at T'bird - it doesn't even
claim to do what Outlook does.
Well, obviously, because I was hoping to find a better application
than Outhouse!
Post by Buzzbomb
I have recommended T'bird to many end-users and they love the speed &
simplicity.
Yes, if all I wanted was a mail reader, I might use it.
Post by Buzzbomb
Post by Mark McIntyre
Unfortunately, its still at the stage linux was at 5 years ago ,ie
driven mostly by bearded sandal-wearing techies who live online....
gd&r
Bollocks
I can only assume you've no clue what gd&r means.

And for what its worth, it *is* still in that state, if you like.
Buzzbomb
2005-05-28 09:41:38 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Mark McIntyre
Post by Buzzbomb
Post by Mark McIntyre
Unfortunately, its still at the stage linux was at 5 years ago ,ie
driven mostly by bearded sandal-wearing techies who live online....
gd&r
Bollocks
I can only assume you've no clue what gd&r means.
if i'd taken you comment seriously I might have tried a more reasoned
response

B.
Adrian
2005-05-28 08:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark McIntyre
Post by patrickp
And, indirectly, Adrian, you've mentioned one of Thunderbird's and
Firefox's stronger points: that, rather than just installing a bloated
montrosity with more bells and whistles than would be needed
My point is that this is one of the cases where the bells and whistles
are *not* gratuitous,
What percentage of Thunderbird users synchronise with a Palm?
Post by Mark McIntyre
and having to fool around finding, installing
and understanding a raft of addons is not a good user experience.
Heck, I'm a techy and I gave up after 30 mins, so its hardly likely to
attract end-users.
Hmmm. I went to Google and typed "Thunderbird Palm Sync" in.
Mark McIntyre
2005-05-28 08:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
What percentage of Thunderbird users synchronise with a Palm?
No idea. What percentage of OE users do? Its the relative rates that
matter.
Post by Adrian
Hmmm. I went to Google and typed "Thunderbird Palm Sync" in.
Sure, something exists. Check out what it does.

And you're merely making my point. I had to spend quite a while
googling and searching the mozilla websites to get the assemblage of
tools I needed. This was no different to using Outlook, and having to
google for spam traps, popup filters etc, and installation was
fiddlier. So I got zero apparent advantage from moving to TBird, and
had a new and less friendly user interface to deal with.
Mark McIntyre
2005-05-27 21:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
You've got a couple of good points in there, Mark, but you do your
credibility no favours because of a couple of very basic errors.
I disagree. I really did try tbird out, since I'm a firefox user and
wanted something compatible.
Post by Adrian
T-bird *does* do Contact Lists - just click on the address book tab.
I said contact list, not list of email addresses. But yes, this might
at a pinch do it although I found it hopelessly inadequate.
Post by Adrian
T-bird *does* do Calendar, via an extension -
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/
Have you *tried* it? Horrible.
Post by Adrian
As for synch, as a WindowsMobile phone/PDA user, T-bird doesn't do the biz
- but that's more a Microsoft proprietary problem than Mozilla's.
Euh, I said Palm. No MS anywhere near my handheld...
Post by Adrian
As a Palm user, though, you should be covered for address book synch -
All it does is synch a small part of what one needs.
Post by Adrian
In the mean time, I seem to recall that the
Palm Desktop wasn't that unpleasant an environment.
ROFL.
Post by Adrian
Now try using Outlook against an LDAP address book. Nope, it's horrible.
Er, I do this in the office, and it works fine. Perhaps you have an
older version of Outlook.
Post by Adrian
Do a more apples-to-apples comparison, of T-bird with OE, and the suckage is
only in one direction...
Fortunately I don't have to use OE.
Adrian
2005-05-28 08:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark McIntyre
Post by Adrian
T-bird *does* do Contact Lists - just click on the address book tab.
I said contact list, not list of email addresses. But yes, this might
at a pinch do it although I found it hopelessly inadequate.
Name.
Company.
Phone.
Home address
Business address.
Custom fields.

Go on - what's the difference?
Dark Warrior_
2005-05-27 21:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mushroom
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
--
Mushroom
many thanks all. im trying out mailwasher atm. I wont be dropping the email
programs im using because I need them for different reasons.

using outlook with my PDA
newsrover and agent for binaries groups
outlook express, as ive been using it for years and not had one virus gone
out of control.
PS. I know the normal setup of outlook express sucks and would let out virus
all over your pc. but if you know what you doing its safe.
The Caretaker
2005-05-28 07:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dark Warrior_
Post by Mushroom
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
--
Mushroom
many thanks all. im trying out mailwasher atm. I wont be dropping the email
programs im using because I need them for different reasons.
using outlook with my PDA
newsrover and agent for binaries groups
outlook express, as ive been using it for years and not had one virus gone
out of control.
PS. I know the normal setup of outlook express sucks and would let out virus
all over your pc. but if you know what you doing its safe.
Absolutely.

No single app is good enough, IMHO, to work for all cases. I use
T-Bird, OE, Agent, Mailwasher, Newsbin Pro, Outlook and numerous IM
services to achieve and manage the whole range of contacts I have from
work and home life.

All have their uses, good points and bad points and all work differently
enough to mean I can pick and choose which suits a particular purpose
for me at that time. Thank goodness we have the choice.

YMMV. :)
--
The Caretaker .........
Dan Holdsworth
2005-05-31 23:05:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:30:43 GMT, Mushroom
Post by Mushroom
Post by Dark Warrior_
lo all.
would like to hear what anti spam you use
im using 4 pc all with winxp. using different email software. outlook
express / outlook / newsrover / agent.
what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
Get rid of all those different e-mail packages and use Mozilla
THunderbird which has a built-in baysian spam filter.
Lose the Windows XP and stick Debian Sarge linux on it; install
Bogofilter and off you go.
--
Dan Holdsworth PhD ***@ntlworld.com
By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, By the beans of Java
do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking
becomes a warning, By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion
Adrian
2005-05-26 22:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dark Warrior_
what is good anti spam on the market atm? free / trail or paying for.
I like K9 from www.keir.net - free, runs alongside your mail client - so
client independent. Intercepts the POP collection.

Works fine, very very impressive hit rate.
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